Do You Know Where Your Hull Identification Number Is?
We just got a letter from Peter Veasey, who recently had a startling realization about his Hull Identification Number, or HIN. Has anyone out there had this problem? Please drop us a comment.
A month ago, I received notice that my boat of 47 years’ HIN was not valid.
I bought my Catalina in 1980 and I’m the second owner. At first, I didn’t worry about it because all I had to do is look on the starboard quarter and write it down. To my surprise, there was no HIN anywhere on the boat.
After several calls and emails, I have discovered some interesting information. First: Before 1980, Catalina and several other boat manufactures didn’t embed a HIN. Second: Since there weren’t numbers, boat brokers often made them up. I looked around my marina at old Catalinas and discovered that either there wasn’t a number, or it was written by hand on the starboard quarter. The [manager] of my marina said he’s had several owners talk to him.
There is information about the boat in the HIN when you look at the format, year made, hull number, month built and who built the boat. My number was obviously made up since the first three letters said it was made at home and the hull number didn’t match the sail number.
I talked to Catalina in Florida who was helpful in getting a proper number. A California Catalina dealer suggested that since there is no number on the hull, I am somewhat free to make one up. I came up with a number that the USCG, I hope, will accept.
Someone on Facebook wrote about their experience going to the DMV: “I did talk to a gentleman who was helpful and said the Coast Guard audited DMV — they found that on a lot of the registration slips, the number exceeded 12 digits. On one example, it said USCG and then had 12 digits. They were not supposed to put the letters in the registration numbers.
Have you had this, or a similar experience?
We had a 2004 Catalina 42. While cleaning, we found Catalina had a HIN label fiberglassed onto the underside of the sink in our master cabin. You might look there.
My 1961 Cal 20 (Black Feathers) has no embedded number on its hull or anywhere else. I was told that it was number 14, and that was consistent with the numbers on its previous main sails. More significant evidence, however, is that the first 50 masts placed on Cal 20s were tapered masts made on the East Coast, and my Cal has one of these masts. After the first 50 tapered masts, Jensen Marine started using non-tapered masts produced on the West Coast. I met another 1961 Cal 20 owner who’s boat was number 89. He also had no embedded marking on the hull or elsewhere, but instead had the number “89” painted on the fiberglass on the interior surface of the bow. I carefully sanded all the layers of paint in that area on my bow, but found no number. I would be very interested in finding out how, and when, Jensen Marine started numbering their Cal 20s.
Thank you for bringing up this interesting topic. Robert Crawford of Black Feathers
OMG I just went through this. I didn’t have time to do to much investigation. My HIN number is not listed on the boat but it is on the pink slip. I don’t understand why they can’t just use that number. I simply put in the number they said my HIN was and sent it back to them. I like your idea in creating the HIN off of the information they give you but I thought that was to recognize the HIN not how to create one so I never bothered. I wish I would have read this article before sending it back.
Thank you so much for this information.
Cpt. Glen Pullen (Berkeley Marina)
I’m in the same boat, built in 1972 and no HIN. My insurance company kept bugging me about it and finally gave up. My policy says my HIN is XXX111111111
I received the same letter from Policy Division of DMV, demanding a proper 12 letter/word number that I should find it stamped on the cockpit somewhere. My boat is Swedish made Hallberg Rassy Monsun31, manufactured May 1979. I looked up the boat practically everywhere. The only number was on the registration plaque issued by Lloyd Register of shipping. I contacted Lloyd Register, who informed me that the number/letter combination on the plaque was for insurance purposes and nothing to do with the HIN. And the HIN assigned to my boat is the same HIN which is my sail number M778. With no other way out, I filled out the form with the number I had found on the Lloyd Register Plaque and sent it out. I will come back when I the DMV reaction to my made-up HIN , hopefully, it will go through.
When I bought MIGRATION, our 46′ Cross trimaran in 1991, the ID number on the California Certificate of Ownership was clearly made up. It was the entire CF number plus E0069H tacked on at the end. The 69 referenced the year she was built (1969). As she was a one-off built by a boatyard in Japan, there certainly was no hull ID on her. I’ve continued using those (somewhat silly) 13 letters and numerals as the ID whenever asked for it.
I also received 2 letters from the DMV, one for my Laser Pico, which only has a hand-carved number in the plastic on the stern and a different one on a sticker on the mast, neither of which seem to match the requirements of the DMV letter. I also recevied a letter for a boat I sold about 15 years ago, so I guess that one is some else’s problem.
I have a 1984 Ericson, built in California just at the time the HIN format was changing. I have a perfectly good HIN on the transom, showing Ericson as the builder, but my home state decided it was not correct….so my registration now shows a number that decodes to “home-built boat made in Washington”, because clearly that’s more correct.
Absolutely have. I am on my 6th or 7th sailboat and always had no issue, but now I’m in New Zealand. I buy a Joe Adam Mottle 33 circa 1981 (Australian yacht) that’s here, and ask the prior owner for the HIN for insurance, marina slip app, etc. and get “huh?” Same response with registration, which they don’t do here. Still don’t know, despite looking online at the boat builder/manufacturer and trying to find something (she was out of the water for months for engine issues).
I briefly worked for W.D. Schock in 1987. At the time, the would imprint the HIN in right rear of the hull and also fiberglass a large HIN into the inside of the bow on right side. That HIN was typically painted over – so it was a secondary source of identification if the HIN on the transom was altered or removed.
I also received a notice last week from California DMV that the HIN on my 1977 Lancer was not compliant. I have 13 professionally-engraved digits on the starboard side of the stern, which perfectly match the DMV registration. I am a partner of the original owner, so I know this has been correct in DMV records for 47 years. Why the big deal now??
I tried to attach or paste the CFR Title 22 data (provided by DMV) to this response, but I was not successful. Therefore, the Federal source data reference follows.
According to California DMV there are three federal Hull Identification Formats per Title33, Paragraph 181, Part C of the United States Code of Federal Regulations. Therefore, all USA compliant boats were to have been assigned a number based on one of three formats. The correct format to have been used, was related to the date of manufacture. One consistent thing in all three formats, whether the digit was alpha or numeric, a compliant HIN is only 12 digits.
in my case, the manufacturer’s ID Code and production/serial number were compliant but I ended up with an extra digit defining the manufacture date. DMV wants a 12 digit HIN, and they will then produce a new ‘pink slip’.
The nasty-gram says I have 30 days to bring this into compliance. I can’t change the fact that 13 digits already exist on the hull. I suppose the solution will be to ignore the last digit (a ‘7’), and create a ‘new’ paperwork HIN for the pink. I have an appointment with DMV on Tuesday to see how they want to handle this.
The letter we got was for our inflatable, which came with our (3rd owner) boat. The dinghy was presumably registered in 1983 with the “wrong” HIN, and that got carried over when we took title 17 years ago. I dug out the dinghy today (we basically never use it) and the HIN matched the “wrong” registration exactly — because there’s an extra letter in the HIN – the HIN on the plate is “XYZ45678M83A-A” and that extra “A” is presumably what caused the trouble, with the registration since 1983 saying XYZ45678M83AA when it should have said XYZ45678M83A.
I have a Scandia 34, low-production, built in 1981, at Tung Hwa Industrial, Kaohsuing, Taiwan. (Still in business as the builder of Fleming Yachts).
I too have received the dreaded DMV letter regarding a non-compliant HIN.
Amazingly, the location of the HIN and engraving on the transom are in complete compliance with the regulations. Furthermore, aside from two extra characters at the end, the HIN format is also compliant.
Why the builder of a Chinese crab crusher got pretty close to the regulations for HIN’s 42 plus years ago and Catalina Yachts could not seem to cope as well shall forever be a mystery.
My mid-70’s Palmer Johnson 42′ aluminum ocean racer should have a Palmer Johnson number, but alas, I cannot find one. Instead, I have one of those ‘homemade in Michigan numbers’ and there is nothing homemade about it. And it has caused me nothing but trouble with the insurance company and when I go international I expect more grief. I am going to start another search for the original number and hope to have success or I too, will think about having it changed to a ‘real’ Palmer Johnson number that I may be able to make up.
I received the same letter from CA DMV about a week ago saying my HIN that I’ve had for 20 years is non-compliant. The number that they have for me was only 11 digits. It turns out it was was missing the fourth from the last letter, which is a letter that indicates the month of production. My boat HIN (stamped on the stbd hull aft) has a “C” in that spot which means a March build. That makes sense because I ordered my boat and picked it up from the builder as soon as it was done on the first of April. I have returned the form with the correction and hopefully I’ll receive back a new Certificate of Title. The letter says if I don’t comply, I won’t be able to renew registration nor transfer my boat (sell it), which I plan to do soon.